Monday, September 28, 2015

Two provocative posts worth reading


Yesterday, Randal Rauser, "a systematic and analytic theologian of evangelical persuasion", published an interesting post under the title: "If the God of Calvinism exists, would you worship him?" (LINK)

His conclusion comes as a bit of a surprise, given the fact that Randal is not a Calvinist.

Fr. Alvin Kimel (an Eastern Orthodox priest), takes issue with Randal's conclusion in, THIS POST.

The two posts are certainly worth reading, as well as the numerous comments they have generated.

Personally, I have yet to determine which conclusion one should side with...


Grace and peace,

David

2 comments:

Rory said...

I am not a Calvinist. I believe the atonement was for all and I am confident that Calvinism is false. That said, I would not side with Fr. Kimel.

The reason is that I think it is presumptious of us to think we can figure out what an all-loving God can or cannot do. I believe in the love of God mostly from supernatural revelation. I think I would want to wait until after I have observed God's judgment on the damned before concluding that it is incompatible with what has been revealed about His love. I don't think we have enough information to pass judgment on any Being, theoretical or not, that has the infinite characteristics that we attribute to God.

If I side with Fr. Kimel, somebody else will make an argument that asks how, if God is all-powerful and all-knowing, can He create a truly free being that rebels against Him. Its a paradox. I don't know the answer. I'll grant paradox. Contradiction? I will not grant that.

I think God will show all those who think they figured out how Christian revelation is contradictory, that He had a way of making rational creatures be free. We will watch the judgment, and if we disagree then, if we have doubts about God's goodness then, at the end of time? Well...I am just saying I'm not going to judge God's goodness until the time. I fully trust with the utmost faith that God will be able to vindicate Himself against all of His sophisticated accusers.

Rory

David Waltz said...

Hi Rory,

Forgive my tardy response, but I was up in Victoria for 3 days, and did not have much time for the internet...

In your post, you wrote:

==I am not a Calvinist. I believe the atonement was for all and I am confident that Calvinism is false. That said, I would not side with Fr. Kimel.

The reason is that I think it is presumptious of us to think we can figure out what an all-loving God can or cannot do. I believe in the love of God mostly from supernatural revelation. I think I would want to wait until after I have observed God's judgment on the damned before concluding that it is incompatible with what has been revealed about His love. I don't think we have enough information to pass judgment on any Being, theoretical or not, that has the infinite characteristics that we attribute to God.==

Excellent points Rory. Will share some of my thoughts on this in a moment.

==If I side with Fr. Kimel, somebody else will make an argument that asks how, if God is all-powerful and all-knowing, can He create a truly free being that rebels against Him. Its a paradox. I don't know the answer. I'll grant paradox. Contradiction? I will not grant that.==

I see it as a paradox too.

==I think God will show all those who think they figured out how Christian revelation is contradictory, that He had a way of making rational creatures be free. We will watch the judgment, and if we disagree then, if we have doubts about God's goodness then, at the end of time? Well...I am just saying I'm not going to judge God's goodness until the time. I fully trust with the utmost faith that God will be able to vindicate Himself against all of His sophisticated accusers.==

Once again, I concur. After pondering over your comments, I am fairly confident that one should reject Fr. Kimel's position. However, with that said, though one can conclude that if the Calvinist God is the God of the Bible, He is worthy of worship, such an affirmation does not even come close to proving that the Calvinist God is in fact the God of the Bible.

As such, I think questions concerning the belief the God of the Bible is a God who knowingly creates beings in His own image that He decrees will be eternally tormented (i.e. He knowingly and willfully withholds the salvific gift of perseverance) remain valid.


Grace and peace,

David