Monday, December 1, 2008

James White vs. Dr. Ergun Caner; or Baptist vs. Baptist

After a week long hiatus from the Internet (albeit there were some very brief exceptions), I spent a considerable portion of my day attempting to take in what I have ‘missed’. One of the items that caught my attention was the A Former Calvinist “Saved Out of Calvinism” video clip by posted James White at AOMIN. (Also posted the same day on YouTube under the title: John 3:16 Conference: Former Calvinist in the Q&A Session.)

The John 3:16 Conference referenced by James took place on November 6 and 7, and appears to be the latest of an ongoing series of sermons/conferences on Calvinism produced by prominent pastors/theologians of the SBC (Southern Baptist Convention). Prior to this was Dr. Jerry Vines Sermon, and his Baptist Battles – Calvinism: A Baptist and his Election .

This is certainly not the first time that James has taken up his pen (or video camera) to address challenges made by fellow Baptists over the issue of Calvinism. Not that long ago, James became somewhat fixated with Dr. Ergun Caner, as evidenced by the numerous posts he ‘dedicated’ to Dr. Caner on the AOMIN blog.

Now, as most probably already know, the issue of Calvinism among modern-day Baptists has been quite a hot-topic over the past few years. IMHO, much of the ‘heat’ has been generated via the reaction of non-5Point Baptists to the vocal devotees of the Founders Ministries; as well as to committed Reformed Baptists like James White.

I suppose some of the questions that need to be asked include: is the issue of Calvinism an “essential” doctrine; if not “essential” should Baptists (or any other Protestant denominations) divide over it; are the divisions really schisms; and if the are schisms, does that not qualify as a grave sin?

Grace and peace,

David

9 comments:

Anonymous said...

The difference between covenant theology and dispensationalism is huge David, in my opinion. A Reformed Baptist who believes that the promises to Israel in the Old Testament is closer to being a Catholic in his ecclesiology than he is to the invisible church of the dispensational Baptist waiting for the rapture.

I always point to the Presbyterian and Reformed authors who put the whammy on dispensationalism for me as being one of the most important steps on my road to Rome, from being a blood-bought, fundamental, premillenial, soul winning Baptist preacher. I don't know if I could have made it to home Rome from dispensationalism without a stop at Reformed covenant theology.

That is why as a Catholic, I am always encouraged to see a Baptist move towards Calvin.

3DOP/Filter Boy/Rory

Anonymous said...

For Dave...off topic.

Those stinking Ducks of yours. I'd be for them if they were on the way to the Rose Bowl. It never fails...never fails...that non-Californian Pac-Ten teams always screw it up at the last minute for one of their own.

I remember last year when within a week or two of then of the season, the Ducks went to one of the Arizona schools...who cares which? Not me. And the Ducks were rolling...toward a possible national title with that skinny little Dixon guy at QB. And those stupid Arizona people were just elated at giving the Pac-Ten title to USC again after Dixon went down. Things could have been so different.

Speaking of "so different" I am reading a book which has for its thesis that both World Wars I and II were very avoidable. It speaks of the shallow jingoism which provoked the Germans into the first conflict, and how the Completely, ridiculously unjust treaty, together with British and French fiasco dimplomacy was necessary for the second conflict.

Anyway...folks besides Dave...I think Dave is interested, and hasn't forgotten that his people are German. Please ignore...unless you're interested...Great book Dave...by someone you've heard of...Gimme a call now that you can take a respite from hide and seek.

Merry Christmas to all,

Boy

Anonymous said...

hmmmm...

No edit function...With regard to my first post...

"A Reformed Baptist who believes that the promises to Israel in the Old Testament...is closer"

should read...

"A Reformed Baptist who believes that the promises to Israel in the Old Testament belongs to the New Testament Church...is closer."

Filter Boy

David Waltz said...

Hi Rory,

You posted:

>>The difference between covenant theology and dispensationalism is huge David, in my opinion.>>

Me: I agree. However, one must also keep in mind that not all Baptists who embrace covenant are 5-point Calvinists (a good number are 4-point), and not all who embrace dispensationalism reject 5-point Calvinism.

>>I always point to the Presbyterian and Reformed authors who put the whammy on dispensationalism for me as being one of the most important steps on my road to Rome, from being a blood-bought, fundamental, premillenial, soul winning Baptist preacher. I don't know if I could have made it to home Rome from dispensationalism without a stop at Reformed covenant theology.>>

Me: Good points. To my knowledge, I am not aware of any dispensational Baptist who has entered the RCC without one or more transitional denominational and/or theological changes prior to their conversion.

>>That is why as a Catholic, I am always encouraged to see a Baptist move towards Calvin.>>

Me: Though interestingly enough, it is the non-Reformed Baptists who maintain three very Catholic dogmas (contra their Reformed ‘brothers’): free will, belief/conversion before regeneration, and unlimited/general atonement.


Grace and peace,

David

David Waltz said...

>>Those stinking Ducks of yours. I'd be for them if they were on the way to the Rose Bowl. It never fails...never fails...that non-Californian Pac-Ten teams always screw it up at the last minute for one of their own.>>

Me: Believe it or not, I was actually hoping the Beavers would win. However, towards the end of the game I realized that the Beavers would probably have had no chance against Penn State; so, despite my disdain for the Trojans, I prefer a PAC 10 win in the Rose Bowl, over a PAC 10 rout!


Grace and peace,

David

P.S. Would you mind providing the title of the book you are reading…sounds very interesting.

Todd Wood said...

Dave, Baptists are allowed vigorous debate(s).

This is one of the many distinctives of conservative Baptists (chuckling).

David Waltz said...

Hi Todd,

So good to see you at AF. I keep forgetting to check in on your excellent blog…really need to make it a habit to drop by weekly.

If anything, you conservative Baptists are passionate concerning your respective viewpoints. My good friend Rory, a number of years ago, gave me some Peter Ruckman tapes—have you heard of ol’ Pete?

Here is his website:

www.kjv1611.org



Grace and peace,

David

Todd Wood said...

David, I have heard of good ol' Pete. He use to come to Idaho on a regular basis. That was unfortunate.

David Waltz said...

Hi Todd,

You posted:

>>David, I have heard of good ol' Pete. He use to come to Idaho on a regular basis. That was unfortunate.>>

Me: Do you say this because of his ‘King James Only’ position, or, something else?


Grace and peace,

David