I just noticed the following comment by Heather Harris in the thread The Eternal Generation of the Son is the 5,000th comment posted here at AF:
Hi David,
I found this article through a google search of "eternal generation." I've been studying the doctrine of the Trinity lately, and specifically the eternal generation of the Son. My dad wrote a book on the Trinity, with a great focus on eternal generation. He also wrote a more simple article of monogenes, and I thought you might find it interesting: http://www.silicabiblechapel.com/onlybegotten.html
Thanks for bringing this important subject to the light! (March 30, 2012 12:48 AM)
Grace and peace,
David
Friday, March 30, 2012
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12 comments:
lol - I guess I'm a celebrity now ;)
Thanks for the welcome. I glanced through your articles on the Trinity, and from what I can gather, it seems you do hold to the belief of eternal generation. Is that right? (I've been finding that those who do believe in eternal generation are few and far between. Also, I noticed you didn't list John Piper as one who holds to the belief of eternal generation, and from what I have found on him, it seems he does believe in it)
Hi Heather,
So good to see you back.
Yesterday, you posted:
==I glanced through your articles on the Trinity, and from what I can gather, it seems you do hold to the belief of eternal generation. Is that right?==
Me: That is correct. God's Word/Son was begotten before time, and with the Father created time, space, the universe, and all "things".
==(I've been finding that those who do believe in eternal generation are few and far between.==
Me: From my research, the doctrine of eternal generation, 'fell on hard times' in the 20th century; and within Protestantism, it became the minority position. However, it seems of late that there has been a resurgence of the teaching (rightfully so, IMHO).
==Also, I noticed you didn't list John Piper as one who holds to the belief of eternal generation, and from what I have found on him, it seems he does believe in it)==
Me: I did not know that Dr. Piper has written on this subject. Back on 12/24/2020, I posted a thread that linked to dozens of Piper's books available in the PDF format for free (HERE). I have read a number of those books, but not recall that he mentioned the doctrine of eternal generation. Do you know which book/books (or perhaps articles/essays) he does so?
BTW, I found your father's book on the Trinity (Understanding the Trinity), and downloaded it to my hard-drive. Hope to get to it later this week (from the table of contents, it looks quite interesting).
Grace and peace,
David
Hello again Heather,
I forgot to mention in my last post that I thoroughly enjoyed your father's essay (which you so graciously linked to earlier). That essay, brought to mind another essay that I think you (and perhaps others) will appreciate:
The Only Begotten Son
Grace and peace,
David
Hi David,
Wow, you think there has been a resurgence of the teaching of eternal generation? I've only recently been introduced to it, and through much prayer and searching in the Word of it, have come to fully believe it. In the excitement of that, I researched which well known evangelical leaders hold to this belief, and have been so disappointed to find there are so few. There might be well known professors or theologians that believe in it, but how often do ordinary Christians read their material? Unfortunately, probably never! That's why I was at least excited to find that well known preachers such as John Piper and John MacArthur hold to this belief - if only they would passionately teach it to the multitudes of Christians that are listening to them!
As for John Piper, you can go to his website and see that he supposedly holds to this belief, at least according to his Statement of faith: Desiring God
"We believe in one living, sovereign, and all-glorious God, eternally existing in three infinitely excellent and admirable Persons: God the Father, fountain of all being; God the Son, eternally begotten, not made, without beginning, being of one essence with the Father; and God the Holy Spirit, proceeding in the full, divine essence, as a Person, eternally from the Father and the Son. Thus each Person in the Godhead is fully and completely God."
Sorry, let me clarify...as for him specifically teaching on the doctrine of eternal generation, no, I've also not found that he has written on this subject - I was merely pointing out that it seems he holds to the belief of it.
ALTHOUGH...my dad recently found some material from John Piper's book, "Think" that he said seemed questionable. A lot of it goes over my head, but I'm sure you could make sense of it! Here's the link to it in google books: Think
I'm glad you enjoyed my dad's article. I'll read the one you recommended when I have time to, thanks! Glad, also, you found my dad's book, as I hope you will also enjoy it.
In Him,
Heather
David, given your view of the Monarchy of the Father and (I assume) your rejection that "God" refers to an abstract nature, in what sense can Jesus or the Holy Spirit be referred to as God?
Hi Heather,
Thanks much for the link to Piper & Noll's book, Think: The Life of the Mind and the Love of God.
It is more than interesting (IMHO), that they quote from an essay of Jonathan Edwards ("An Essay On The Trinity") that I read back in the 90s. Not many people are aware of this important essay, for it is not published in any of the 'standard' collections of Edwards. Piper & Noll provide the quote from the 1971 book that I own, Treatise On Grace & other posthumously published writings including, Observations On The Trinity, edited by Paul Helm.
Now, thanks to the internet, both of Edward's rare essays ("An Essay On The Trinity" and " Observations On The Trinity") are available online for free:
Internet Archive: An Unpublished Essay of Edwards On The Trinity
Google Books: An Unpublished Essay of Edwards On The Trinity
Internet Archive: Observations Concerning The Trinity
Google Books: Observations Concerning The Trinity
I think you will enjoy both essays, especially the first one.
Grace and peace,
David
Hello Ryan,
Last night, you posted:
== David, given your view of the Monarchy of the Father and (I assume) your rejection that "God" refers to an abstract nature,==
Me: I do not reject the application of the term "God" to the Son and HS, IF it is understand as a reference to essence/nature; in other words, if it is understand as an equivalent to divinity (i.e. θεότης).
==in what sense can Jesus or the Holy Spirit be referred to as God?==
Me: In reference to the divinity/divine nature shared by all 3 persons of the Godhead. That's what I like about the Chalcedonian Definition, Jesus Christ is homoousiov with the God the Father concerning his divinity (theotēta), and homoousiov with man concerning his humanity (anthrōpotēta).
Grace and peace,
David
Ooops...just now noticed a typo in my last post: "understand" should read "understood".
David,
I'm a bit confused here: do you believe in the Trinity or not?
I was under the impression you either stopped or had serious doubts about it when you stopped identifying as Catholic on your blog.
Hi Nick,
You posted:
==I'm a bit confused here: do you believe in the Trinity or not?
I was under the impression you either stopped or had serious doubts about it when you stopped identifying as Catholic on your blog.==
The simple answer is that I believe in "the Trinity". However, the answer is really much more complex, due to the fact that there are within the Christian tradition a number of differing forms of Trinitarianism.
The "serious doubts" that you mentioned has to do primarily with the Augustine/Barth/Rahner form of Trinitarianism which has been the dominate view of Trinitarianism in the Latin/Western tradition.
Did you read my '5 propositions' (highlighted in blue) in the last post? If not, I hope you take a moment and do so. If you have already read, or plan to read those '5 propositions', I would sincerely appreciate hearing from you any questions they may have raised...
Grace and peace,
David
Hello David,
This is long overdue, but I kept it marked unread in my inbox and other things just piled up. I finally am clearing my inbox and wanted to address this.
I am very glad to hear your position on the Trinity. Regarding your 5 blue propositions, I think they're all more or less orthodox (in Catholicism, EO, and Protestantism).
The one part that I've not done enough study in is #5, which is whether the 'generation' is a substantial, personal, or both. I cannot tell if this is where contentions arise between Catholics and EO or not. It makes sense to say "Both," but it seems like what is commonly emphasized is "Personal". Another hard part is that it doesn't seem the Nicene Creed gives this detail.
Have you read my Filioque in Revelation 22:1 article?
Hi Nick,
Sorry about my somewhat belated response, but I just now noticed your April 30th post—in that post you wrote:
==I am very glad to hear your position on the Trinity. Regarding your 5 blue propositions, I think they're all more or less orthodox (in Catholicism, EO, and Protestantism).==
Good to hear Nick; I sincerely hope that the number of folk who have attempted to label me as an "Arian" would take the time to apply a bit of objectivity when reading my blog, for in doing so, even my worst critics will realize that such a caricature is utterly false.
Grace and peace,
David
P.S. Headed over right now to read the thread you linked to...
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